your jobs are going extra-remote to other countries

The idea came to Johnny Taylor Jr. early last year, after one of his employees made a case that her technology position could be done anywhere. She wanted to leave Virginia, where she held a job at the Society for Human Resource Management, a professional association based in Alexandria. She asked to work remotely in North Carolina.

“Then a lightbulb went off,” said Mr. Taylor, the association’s chief executive.

Instead of having the employee work in another state, he outsourced her job to India, where his organization is saving around 40% in labor costs, he said.

[quote]the Society for Human Resource Management

*eyeroll*

This is what happens all the time. Years before the pandemic, a friend of mine was gloating that he was working remotely. He had a job in San Francisco, but he was now working from his new home up in Santa Rosa. Within a few months, his job was sent overseas, and he was screwed.

“A lightbulb went off.” They’ve been doing this for at least 15 years.

And anyone who has had to deal with an Indian worker whether by phone or email knows just how helpful they aren’t.

It never works because out-source workers are horrible. They should just give that up already.

Society for Human Resource Management: we fuck over our employees so you can trust us to fuck over yours!

are the poors complaining again?

Outsourcing jobs out of the US should be illegal, especially for jobs that include access to personal identifiable information.

If anybody ever needs to know what HR is really about, remember Johnny Taylor Jr., head of a HR organization who cost a woman her job for stepping out of line.

Mr. lightbulb Johnny Taylor Jr. is a real cunt. I knew without looking this is from the WSJ. I know, it’s a competitive world and that’s how capitalism works and nobody is owed a living. But I could almost see the twinkle in his eyes as he fires Americans to send their livelihood overseas.

Human resource management?? In India??? Sounds like a woke joke company lmfao.

The English is very good in India but the accents can be almost diabolical to interpret. I hate when I get call centred to India. I try to be patient but it adds to the frustration. No one calls a call centre in a good mood.

There's a ton of remote work available.

Tee hee.

I love this story.

I want to see all the WFH assholes lose their jobs to India and the Philippines.

Good for them!

Hi Mitt Romney @R15! Welcome to the DL.

There are so many jobs that can't be outsourced, though. Or rather, you could outsource them, but the quality of the work would decline to the point that it would bring projects to a standstill.

I don't want to say what I do, but it requires fairly specialist knowledge of both the role and industry I work in. I know I'm far from alone.

America is going the way with India in the flies smells and beggars. Whatever breaks stays broken these days. To send problems to India to “help” is almost funny if it wasn’t so damaging.

It's not just that overseas call center staffers have accents. It's that they don't get American idiom and the harder-to-pin-down nuances of speech, the assumptions that underlie your questions and explanations, that an American staffer would immediately pick up on. So it takes forever to accomplish anything with them.

[quote] It's not just that overseas call center staffers have accents. It's that they don't get American idiom and the harder-to-pin-down nuances of speech, the assumptions that underlie your questions and explanations, that an American staffer would immediately pick up on. So it takes forever to accomplish anything with them.

If you're talking quality versus quantity R19, then you're shit out of luck.

American Corporations threw quality out the window a long time ago.

They only care about the bottom line, and ripping off the consumer. Oh, and they also care about shareholder profits and executive bonuses.

But don't think for one second that they actually care about their employees.

This is why they're going remote WFH with foreigners.

The company doesn't need you, because the company doesn't care about quality.

You're just too expensive and too demanding, compared to a foreign worker that can be employed for one-tenth of your cost and much less hassle.

Sending jobs overseas is nothing new so not sure what this is about.

And aside from the accent what people tend to overlook is that people who speak English as a second language fluently may be able to hold a conversation but they can't really go in depth. Technological terms, the inner bureaucracy of a corporation-- these things require someone for whom English is a first language.

[quote]America is going the way with India in the flies smells and beggars.

My city recently announced it was official policy that road quality (paving, potholes) would be allowed to reach poor before they'd act. No money.

I think if you pretend you only speak Spanish with a non-American call center person , they will transfer you back to the US.

Xfinity has out-sourced customer service to India. Not sure when that happened. Last customer service call I made lasted 3 hours and I got absolutely nowhere. They could not solve the problem, because it wasn’t fixable. But rather than tell me that they just kept bouncing me around. To be fair, xfinity customer service has always absolutely sucked regardless of whichever country the reps live in.

It's true but the quality is not always as good.

They are treated as disposable too. It's not good all around. Only for the top.

The issue I have with work from home is the people who treat WFH as meaning flextime. They have no issue with running out in the middle of the day (usually to pick up and drop off kids and do whatever) and then tacking on an extra hour or two after 5…leaving the rest of us waiting on them to complete their tasks to also work their hours. We’re back to the office three days and it’s those days where I actually have an evening.

Exchangeable disposable widget people of the world, unite!

Corps can outsource all they want, the problem is personal information is gold in these countries. Data Sovrenty laws, GDRP, and now states are coming up with their own privacy laws. The cost of protecting that data with a third-party outsourced country becomes that much more expensive. Typically people who work from home have a highly sought-after skill set and the company is willing to give them remote work rather than move them to their location. Outsourcing is usually jobs that people can be trained to do, like first-line customer support, where 90% of the calls can be solved via a script of questions. The other thing to note is Overseas workers as not as cheap as they used to be.

[quote]Data Sovrenty laws,

What laws?!

I believe "Data Sovrenty" is a well-known drag queen in Birmingham, Alabama - very pageanty.

[quote]I think if you pretend you only speak Spanish with a non-American call center person , they will transfer you back to the US.

I would think they'd just tranfer you to their call center in Costa Rica or Guatemala.

lol it will all just go to a chatbot

Can you imagine not being able to escape the circular chatbot hell of a conversation? "Did that solve your problem? No. Did that solve your problem? No." while it reads the entire troubleshooting list to you into eternity. Maybe they'll give chatbot's Indian accents and we'll never notice the difference.

This is the same Johnny Taylor, Jr. who bent over backwards to give Paris Dennard a job.

Johnny Taylor, Jr. is handsome.

I bet he's RIPPED under that suit.

Very gay acting. But Wikipedia says he WAS married to a woman.

HMMMMMMMM

Yeah, but the woman is a fundie former WNBA player.

I'm imagining an anti-WFH DLer frothing at the mouth while watching The Net with Sandra Bullock.

R26 This pretty much summarizes it all.

"he issue I have with work from home is the people who treat WFH as meaning flextime. They have no issue with running out in the middle of the day (usually to pick up and drop off kids and do whatever) and then tacking on an extra hour or two after 5…"

R26 is an entitled lazy housewife.

Your kids are at school, your husband is away at work. You're not doing shit but sitting around all day watching TV.

Oooh, oooh, I know a bias we bring to work, Johnny, that many of us don't realize. The bias that work means being chained to a cubicle from 8 in the morning to 6 at night, and anything other than that arrangement doesn't, well, work. Ohh, Ohhh, and another one. That humans are resources that need managing by corporate bureaucrats that need offices to work pretty much as they did in the 1950s, with much more interest in race and gender, but pretty much in the same braindead fashion. Others? sure, but let's start with those two.

I'm back to work after a long hiatus of working from home part time.

I don't think I would go back, even though I loved it. If you're at home you're also overlooked by the people who can advance your career. It's especially bad for young people and can set them back in ways that they can't make up later.

As much as wfh is convenient and enjoyable, it's also career limiting.

R13 the written English is awful too.

[quote][R26] is an entitled lazy housewife.

Your post makes zero sense in context to what I posted. I’m complaining about entitled fraus…you dumb cunt.

Those Indian call center. customer service or whatever workers drive one mad.

First it is the implied informality that have them speaking with you as if they've been on intimate contact level for decades.

Then comes the constant "I'm sorry you're having this issue" or "Yes, I understand, let's see if we can.." and so on.

Law firms tried shipping their clerical work to India 20 years ago. After a few years of dealing with work product generated by people with not much speaking of for the English the work all came back to the US.

Oh lord, I remember the days of outsourcing at law firms.

It did go overseas. And it did come back.

But a lot of it went to low cost places like WV and Midwest locations.

Johnny Taylor, Jr. loves to take it up the keister dressed up as Sailor Moon.

Teaching is a job that could be outsourced. Students would still physically go to schools (we saw what happened when they didn't), but you could have just a minimum wage baby sitter on site, while the instructor teaches on a big screen. Not only will it save money, but it will do away with all the political problems we've seen lately. You read it first here, folks.

IIRC many healthcare jobs are being outsourced to India.

They tried using Indian radiologists, but rules/laws about physicians having background equal to an American licensed doctors pretty much put an end to that.

I run into this problem all the time. I cannot understand them. several times I’ve heard chickens in the background as well as dog’s barking. I’m sure they do this to cut cost and pass along to the consumer…Sure!

Sovereignty...there I spelled it right you fucking nitpicking cunts. God, I love you guys.

Also, it’s “GDPR” - not “GDRP”

[quote]as well as dog’s barking.

Oh, dear! (Why didn't you do the same with chickens?)

I'm ok with this happening besides what can you do?

Too funny OP. It’s bewildering to me how so called smart educated people possess very little foresight.

R13 I do agree there and at times even when someone knows the language, things are just different. Someone properly educated and fluent can have water cooler conversations about the weather or some big cultural event but when it comes to customer service problems things are more complex. And their robotic structuring of English language makes resolution nearly impossible over the phone. I had to apologize for one I went so beserk and started cursing because her of thick accent coupled with cookie cutter answers.

Step One: Outsource work to India/SE Asia

Step Two: Save almost 60% on labor costs.

Step Three: Increased legal costs to cover navigating international labor laws.

Step Four:: Increased infrastructure and security costs to protect data.

Step Five: Save no actual money.

“Can I talk to your manager?

Can you find another one from your team?

Is there any manager at all for any team?

How about in the US?

There’s no manager on duty right across the entire company?

Not even the CEO?

In your playbook, who is the next escalation step when I keep asking for any manager and you tell me ‘there is no manager’’?

Fine, connect me to her.

They read out the scripts at you. They listen for buzzwords. They use fake voices like they’re intimate pals. You can circle a drain forever with their shit.

They want you to feel bad and not say over and over “ I can’t understand you”.

Hey if it makes companies richer that means more money for all of us!

Well, we COULD set it up that way r62

[quote] Step Three: Increased legal costs to cover navigating international labor laws.

Ha! That's the difference.

US employees can sue the fuck out of their employers for a multitude of reasons.

Foreigners can't.

So there won't BE any "legal costs" for outsourcing internationally.

The only legal costs would be having to deal with Americans working from home, who get fired, and then try to sue.

I mean some kind of tax on outsourcing, r65, and some kind of redistribution for it. Accept that yes, there will be outsourcing, but stop accepting that that means that the already wealthy get all the benefit from it. Spread that around a bit. Stop the winner-take-all society nonsense.

When I last called AT&T for customer support I could've sworn I heard what sounded like cock fighting and then sirens in the background.

In fairness, it's not impossible that you reached somewhere in these grand and glorious United States r67.

Honest to God I thought I was the only one who has called in, got a person with an accent, and heard chickens in the background...

All I know is I'm getting FUCK ALL done with the WFH "associates" I'm forced to deal with nowadays EVERYWHERE and companies don't seem to give a fuck. Nobody "at work" wants to work and if you're forced to interact, you're jammed up because of it. It's like it's sabotage.

R66 Hmm you seem confused about how taxes work in this country.

taxes work how we set them up r71.

What does that have to do with anything r72?

This seems like a planted piece. He's never heard of OUTSOURCING and is supposedly the head of a national HR organization?

Get the fuck out of here.

This guy has shady AF credentials - and who knows what the hell this organization actually does?

Total bullshit - including Johnny Taylor Jr.

What do taxes have to do with economic incentives r73? There's no way to set up taxes to encourage or discourage sending jobs overseas?

Hahaha joke's on you, India!

[quote] This guy has shady AF credentials - and who knows what the hell this organization actually does?

[quote] Total bullshit - including Johnny Taylor Jr.

Shut the fuck up, you lazy Work From Home cunt!!!!

Stop making excuses, get your fat ass back to the fucking office!

Maybe eventually ALL the jobs r76. And I do wish we could all return to some basic questions soon, like what is work actually for and how much do we need the average human to do it. But I assume instead we will run around like morons for a few more years pretending nothing is really happening and then suddenly in a panic try to answer the questions while trying to ensure that everything remains pretty much exactly as it was.

Spoiler: It won't.

They tried that a decade ago, R48, with MOOCs and other such enterprises. It didn't work because the completion rate was so abysmal. There are basic flaws to the idea of having students pay tuition for a series of taped (or, at best, remote) lectures, not least because plenty of courses (labs, seminars, language, art) don't lend themselves to a lecture format. Colleges and universities, of course, will keep trying to reduce education to whatever allows them to hire only gig employees except for a tiny number of professionals.

Yet new jobs are their highest ever OP! Maybe do your research before posting! This is a boom time for employees.

[quote] As much as wfh is convenient and enjoyable, it's also career limiting.

Not if you're a writer.

Eventually there will be so few jobs for low skill levels in the USA that India will start outsourcing Indian jobs to America. You’ll work in a call center taking calls from customers in India. And they won’t be able to understand you.

This will not end well for Mr Johnny. SHRM is a professional association supported by member dues. The majority of SHRM’s membership is women. Many pay out of their own pocket for their SHRM membership.

R80: “OP! Maybe do your research before posting”

OP: I’m not doing your work for you.

[quote]I heard what sounded like cock fighting and then sirens in the background.

Wow. I've docked before, but never to the point an ambulance was required.

That may be hot.